Detailing Q&A

[AndyH]

Right guys.

I've started this thread so that anyone with a specific question can ask away.

I'll update this first post with all the questions in order of relevance.


Online Detailing Suppliers:

www.polishedbliss.co.uk (http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk)
www.cleanyourcar.co.uk (http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk)
www.cleanandshiney.co.uk (http://www.cleanandshiney.co.uk)
www.seriousperformance.co.uk (http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk)
www.detailedobsession.co.uk (http://www.detailedobsession.co.uk)

All of these suppliers are fantastic. I personally use either Gaz @ DetailedObsession (based in Wickford) or Tim @ CleanYourCar (based in Huddersfield).

Soaps:

You need to use a ph balanced shampoo which won't damage the cars clearcoat! My recommendations are:

Megs NXT Car Wash
Swissvax Car Bath
Chemical Guys Maxi Suds II
Chemical Guys Citrus Wash


2 Bucket Method:

Right, firstly the purpose of the 2 bucket method is simple. Its to reduce/stop dirt being put back onto the panels and scratching them.

You have one soapy bucket and one clean water bucket. When the car has been sufficently soaked with water, you take the mitt from the soap bucket...wash the panel...then place into the clean water bucket. Then repeat around the car.

When the mitt is in the clean water bucket i usually inspect it and get all the lodged grit out.

Its amazing how dirty the Clean bucket gets!!

This is after 2 days of dirt on a Megane!!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/AHartigan/Valeting/Bucket.jpg



What to do and use after claying?

Well, claying is a process to remove all surface bonded contaminates from the cars clearcoat. Clays come in various strengths (fine, mild, aggressive) and remove anything stuck to the clearcoat.

With this in mind, you will strip all of the protection from the car, so after claying you will need to apply that protection.

Method:

1) Wash the car (2 bucket method) to remove all of the dirt.
2) Tear a piece of clay that will roughly flatten to the size of your palm.
3) Kneed (sp) the clay in your hands until warm.
4) Take the clay lubricant (usually Quick Detailer) and spray a 1' square on the panel
5) Spray the clay with lubricant in your hand
6) Press the clay onto the surface and work within the 1' square, use straight lines as i is easy to spot any marring induced by the clay.
7) When the clay becomes soiled, kneed the clay and apply a fresh surface to the paint.
8) When finished, wash the car again.

Notes:

Keep the clay and paint surface well lubricated.
Keep kneeding the clay and turning, this will keep the clay soft and easy to work with.



After claying a sealant or wax needs to be applied NOT a polish or glaze.


Glass Cleaning

Any glass cleaning product is good. I have used Meguiars NXT Gen Glass Cleaner and its really good. Alternatively, you can use Clearkote Vanilla Mouse Glaze applied via a Porter Cable polisher. The latter leaves a great finish and has RainX qualities :)


Wheel Cleaning

Firstly, the wheels are rather like the bodywork. They are protected in a laquer which gives the shine and protection to the paint underneath. Some wheel cleaners are so acidic that they can eat away this protection, especially when the wheels are damaged through kerbing.

The best product to use would be a Biodegradable All Purpose Cleaner.

Wonder Wheels is a good cleaner BUT, and this is a big but, it is VERY acidic. Each time you use this it needs to be followed by around 3 coats of sealant (i'll come to this in a minute). Basically it eats the brake dust and the protection.

Autoglym Wheel Cleaner is another good on, slightly less acidic than WW as well.

Poorboys Multi Purpose Cleaner, this stuff is brilliant. Neat you can use it on wheels and metals and removes pretty much everything. Diluted it'll get out stains on carpets etc.

Megs All Purpose Cleaner, again the same as the Poorboys offering.

Megs Wheel Brightener, this has been specifically developed to get the best results. You MUST dilute it, i use a 4:1 mix which is very good at removing stubborn grime. For lighter use dilute it to around 10:1 for it to be truely safe on the wheels.

Wild Card!!

Mr Muscle Oven Cleaner!!!! This is obviously very acidic and will damage the wheels with repeat applications! Its very good though! You must add protection after use though!


The best way to remove the tar spots from the wheels is to use a safe cleaner and then clay the wheels (see above). I use quite an aggressive clay for the wheels (Sonus Grey Clay) which works well.

Protecting the Wheels

After cleaning the wheels thoroughly protection needs to be applied to keep the wheels safe. It follows the same procedure as the bodywork...polish, seal, wax.

You can use any polish on the wheels. Some people use Autoglym's Super Resin Polish (AG SRP), Megs NXT Metal Polish etc. This will clean the surface ready for the sealant and intoduce some shine to the wheels.

Sealing the wheels is the most important step! It is the layer that will protect the laquer of the wheels! There are a couple of sealants on the market which are exceptional...Poorboys Wheel Sealant and Chemical Guys Wheel Guard.
These add brilliant shine and protection to the wheels. They are temp proof to 800degs C!!! This means that the super hot brake dust particals rest on the layer of sealant and proceed no further.

If using these products you will be able to keep the wheels free from brake dust every time you wash the car.

Anything cleaning related will be answered :)

Andy

[Tony]

The two bucket method?
What to do and use after claying?
Glass cleaning?

[AndyH]

Updated with Tonys questions :)

I'll add pictures when i get the chance to take some to demonstrate how much the 2 bucket method helps keep the paint in good condition.

Also i'll do a claying guide and a good wash guide.

[Dawn]

Just a quickie :p
Andy showed me how to wash my car properly using the two bucket method and the results were sooo much better, tyvm x
Just need to sneak off to halfords for the proper 'tools' :)

[AndyH]

Halfrauds charge an arm and a leg. Let me know what you need and i'll point you in the right driection web wise :)

[Dawn]

Awww fanks shweetie, after i advertised a kidney on flea bay to fund it lol

[AndyH]

I know lol, i need a cheaper hobby! I had to have a sit down after last nights spending :o

[Tony]

Thanks Andy
very helpful

[sel]

Hi just a quick question:

Cleaning wheels, what should i use? - im not able to remove my wheels-so please tell me the best things to use (preferable available from halfords/mill autos or motorworld)

i currently use:

an alloy wheel brush
a cloth
car wash-auto gleam/or maguiers (the purple one)
Meguiers for wheels -in pink spray bottle
then turtle wax protector spray stuff-ment to help the brake dust from not sticking??:Riiiight:
and i use meguiers wet look tyre spray

....but no matter how much i clean them (even with a pressure washer-avoiding the valves of course) they still appear to have brake dust stuck to them....

Please help if you can!! :p thanks in advance:Smug:

[rix]

thank you for your help, i was turtle wax, do you think its any good?

[AndyH]

Updated Sel :)

Rix - Turtle Wax is ok, its mass produced and aimed at getting fairly decent results for the general public.

For the same price you'll find other makes like Poorboys, Clearkote, Jeffs, Blackfire etc will get exceptional results very easily.

[rix]

Updated Sel :)

Rix - Turtle Wax is ok, its mass produced and aimed at getting fairly decent results for the general public.

For the same price you'll find other makes like Poorboys, Clearkote, Jeffs, Blackfire etc will get exceptional results very easily.


thank you i will have to have a look at the other stuff, any tips for white wheels? i wax them which helps a bit....

[AndyH]

As long as the paint underneath is ok, follow the above procedure and your wheels will really stand out :)

This is the result:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f378/Vicki1983/VixCar048.jpg

[rix]

wow that looks great

thank you
:BigGrin:

[sel]

Cant wait to clean Muvlee now..... have printed off the wheel cleaning info - il take b4 and after pics if i remember!!

Thanks andy

[Tony]

Hi Andy
Once the car has been clayed and sealed with a wax when can the Meguiars three step (paint clean,polish and carnuba) be used.
Can i polish after it's been sealed?:<>

[AndyH]

When you say sealed with a wax...which wax do you mean?

Basically you should Clay then do the 3 stage Megs stuff.

The procedure should always be:


Wash
Dry
Clay
Cut
Polish
Glaze
Seal
WaxWax and Sealant are different things. Also some companys label their products wrongly for the step.

Polishes can be two things...either a compound polish with abrasive properties or a glaze. Both do what they say on the tin. Some polishes contain fillers to mask some defects (Autoglym's Super Resin Polish) but these are mainly classified as glazes.

So in answer to your orginal question Tony, i would just apply the liquid carnuba wax if you have already waxed. If not then i'd do the 3 stage stuff.

[Tony]

In the Merguiars clay kit you get
Clay bar
Detailer Spray
Microfibre towel
and a small bottle of wax
so that the one i mean (or is it a sealer?):Wink: :Riiiight:

[Tony]

Andy one weekend i think you need to show explain or help me how to do my car properly as i cant get rid of the swirl marks
Also i have some megs scratch remover but not quite sure how to use it properly:Riiiight:

[AndyH]

Andy one weekend i think you need to show explain or help me how to do my car properly as i cant get rid of the swirl marks
Also i have some megs scratch remover but not quite sure how to use it properly:Riiiight:

Tony, the only proper way to get rid of swirl marks is to have your car machine polished. It takes off a couple of microns of clearcoat which the swirls are in.

Mini's paint is made in association with Ricky Hatton...double 'ard!!

Megs Scratch remover is good for spot marks and soften deeper scratches.

If we work out a weekend where we are both free i'll pop over and give a demo on what to do :)

[AndyH]

Also another way is to mask the swirls by using a product that contains fillers. Examples would be Autoglyms Super Resin Polish and Clearkote Red Moose Machine Glaze.

[Tony]

Thanks Andy will add the mouse to my ever growing cleaning product box and we'el sort a weekend out :<>

[Tony]

If we work out a weekend where we are both free i'll pop over and give a demo on what to do :)[/quote]




You must be the special one as Paula said she will do you dinner ! My God even i dont get that offer:0o

[tkmini]

yes andy i will need your special services can you pm on how much you charge as my paint work needs serious rescuing....doctor shes fading fast,LOL

[rix]

hey mini is giving me the cleaning kit how much is it worth? and sealing it or something whats that? lol i know myabe a few silly q's rix

[AndyH]

Sorry for the delay Paul but i've pm'd you now :)

Rix,

Are Mini giving you a cleaning kit? If so I have no idea how much they are worth or for that fact what the consist of!

Sealing the paint is a product which protects the paint for a long (ish) time. Usually around 3-5 months depending on product and preperation.

[rix]

Sorry for the delay Paul but i've pm'd you now :)

Rix,

Are Mini giving you a cleaning kit? If so I have no idea how much they are worth or for that fact what the consist of!

Sealing the paint is a product which protects the paint for a long (ish) time. Usually around 3-5 months depending on product and preperation.

it the top up kit for the sealing, thank you for your help

rix

[AndyH]

Rix after thinking about it i think Mini have supaguarded your car. The top up kit in your boot helps the sealent's durability.

PERSONALLY

I think that supaguard is not a good product. They market it on the basis that it will provide long lasting protection. In my experience it will last 6 months tops.

A much better way to go is to use 3-4 coats of Chemical Guys Jetseal 109 (possibly polycharged to increase durability further). This should last roughly 6-8 months and costs....£20! It can also be used on wheels with great results.

[rix]

Rix after thinking about it i think Mini have supaguarded your car. The top up kit in your boot helps the sealent's durability.

PERSONALLY

I think that supaguard is not a good product. They market it on the basis that it will provide long lasting protection. In my experience it will last 6 months tops.

A much better way to go is to use 3-4 coats of Chemical Guys Jetseal 109 (possibly polycharged to increase durability further). This should last roughly 6-8 months and costs....£20! It can also be used on wheels with great results.


thank you andy.......

[Paul c]

Question Andy................

How do YOU get car polish off of black plastic trim????????????

I know the answer is not to get it on there in the first place .but....sometimes it happens and try as i do once its on the trim i cant get it off!!!!!!!!!!! only manage to disguise it!!

[AndyH]

Paul,

Try and see if this works. Get an eraser/rubber and rub it over the mark. It should get into the groves of the trim.

Failing that smear smooth peanut butter over it and then remove.

Then failing that get some All Purpose Cleaner (Tescos/Aldi/Meguairs) and spray and agitate with a tooth brush.

[mark84]

Hey andy,

Planning a big detailing day soon and want to try and get the majority of swirl marks outta my car as its a lovely BRG colour! planning to post some before and after shots to show the difference!

What i wanted to ask is i'm starting with a wash, then a meguiars quick clay then another wash then i want to start polishing so that i can get at th swirl marks.

Gonna be doing it all by hand and using Meguairs foam applicator pads to put on and meguairs super plush cloths (the newer yellow ones) to buff off and using Meguairs deep crystal polish! (are you noticing the meguairs theme?)

how many times should i polish and do you have any tips on the best ways to get the swirls out?? i.e. how long the polish should settle? straight lines or circular motion? etc!

after the mammoth polish i was gonna give it good meguairs wax (either the tech or the gold class) and then leave it over night to then give it a coat of the other wax i.e. opposite to the wax i used the previous night, to help with a deep glossy shine!

any hints and tips are much appreciated in the polishing side of things and any others on waxing pls!

thanx Andy (god of Detailing!)

[AndyH]

Hey andy,

Planning a big detailing day soon and want to try and get the majority of swirl marks outta my car as its a lovely BRG colour! planning to post some before and after shots to show the difference!

What i wanted to ask is i'm starting with a wash, then a meguiars quick clay then another wash then i want to start polishing so that i can get at th swirl marks.

Gonna be doing it all by hand and using Meguairs foam applicator pads to put on and meguairs super plush cloths (the newer yellow ones) to buff off and using Meguairs deep crystal polish! (are you noticing the meguairs theme?)

how many times should i polish and do you have any tips on the best ways to get the swirls out?? i.e. how long the polish should settle? straight lines or circular motion? etc!

after the mammoth polish i was gonna give it good meguairs wax (either the tech or the gold class) and then leave it over night to then give it a coat of the other wax i.e. opposite to the wax i used the previous night, to help with a deep glossy shine!

any hints and tips are much appreciated in the polishing side of things and any others on waxing pls!

thanx Andy (god of Detailing!)

Hi Mark

Firstly, working by hand you will find it very hard. At best you would be removing oxidisation and light swirling. Any deeper marks will only be able to be removed by machine.

It may be worth considering using a product with filling abilities to mask the swirling. There are a couple fo products that do this very well.

Bilt Hamper Auto Balm
Autoglym Super Resin Polish
Clearkote Red Moose Machine GlazeYou will need at least 3+ hits per panel to mask deeper swirling.

If you did want to soldier on and try and remove some of the swirling by hand then i suggest:

Megs DC Stage 1
Autoglym SRP
Megs #80All of these products would again need 3+ hits and the Megs items would need to be followed by one of the above fillers.

As for wax GC and NXT are good (NXT possibly having the edge in terms of looks) but they will not last. You are probably looking at 1 months tops then all of the products underneath are exposed to the elements.

I'd suggest something a little more expensive but with better looks and durability

Collinite 476s (£14)
Megs #16Megs #16 will be good for slightly longer than the NXT but will give a superior look.

Collinite will last FOREVER...well around 6 months, but gives a great look as well.

Two coats of wax spread 12hrs apart is very good. It gives the 1st layer a chance to fully cure and increase protection and looks.

With regards to application, the Megs applicator pads are good. Personally i prefer German Applicator Pads (by Lake Country, available at www.polishedbliss.co.uk (http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk)) as they fit the hand very well and last a long time.

Straight lines or Circles??? Well swirl marks are actually lots of straight lines in all different directions. Its the way the light from a source hits thems that appears circular. It totally boils down to what way you prefer. I prefer straight lines as that way i can see 100% if i have marked the surface (plus its slightly easier on the shoulders)


HTH

Andy

[mark84]

top banana andy!

will get some auto glym super resin, give it three good coats per panel (mixed with lots of elbow grease!) then give it three good hits with the megs DC (probably a little less elbow this time round!:Grin: ) then onto the wax,

not too fussed about how long its lasts as i generally give the car a wax at least once a month! plus i get on with meguairs stuff! where would i get the megs #16 as i can't see it at the local halfrauds!? thanx again andy you are truely a god!:Grin:

[AndyH]

top banana andy!

will get some auto glym super resin, give it three good coats per panel (mixed with lots of elbow grease!) then give it three good hits with the megs DC (probably a little less elbow this time round!:Grin: ) then onto the wax,

not too fussed about how long its lasts as i generally give the car a wax at least once a month! plus i get on with meguairs stuff! where would i get the megs #16 as i can't see it at the local halfrauds!? thanx again andy you are truely a god!:Grin:

If you are going to use the AG SRP then forget the Megs DC as the SRP is an All in One product.

Megs #16 is available online as i think its part of Megs professional range.

[mark84]

thanks again andy, last question, the previous owner has left a few discreet scratches nothing overly unsightly but finger nail catch depth, would using something like t-cut just on these bits be too harsh and a cardinal no no or ok?? also on the bumper someone has used a touch up pen, again not badly done but i wondered if you had any tips on ways to help blend it in again i'm not afraid of a little elbow grease! again would something more severe like t-cut be the way to go or as i've already said is it a dirty word??

if you do recommend t-cut though on these small bits i was gonna get it in the colour restore colour'd stuff again am i right in doing this??

look forward to your reply andy thanks in advance

mark

[AndyH]

thanks again andy, last question, the previous owner has left a few discreet scratches nothing overly unsightly but finger nail catch depth, would using something like t-cut just on these bits be too harsh and a cardinal no no or ok?? also on the bumper someone has used a touch up pen, again not badly done but i wondered if you had any tips on ways to help blend it in again i'm not afraid of a little elbow grease! again would something more severe like t-cut be the way to go or as i've already said is it a dirty word??

if you do recommend t-cut though on these small bits i was gonna get it in the colour restore colour'd stuff again am i right in doing this??

look forward to your reply andy thanks in advance

mark

No problems Mark :)

I'm going to break down your question into a few areas to explain everything comepletely. I hope it doesn't sound condescending but please bare with me as i'm trying to get everyone to understand :)

the previous owner has left a few discreet scratches nothing overly unsightly but finger nail catch depth

Right, i'll do this with specific reference to Mini paint :)

On each panel you have 3 layers...primer, colour pigment, laquer. Any scratching will be done in the laquer layer. This layer is usually 30-60 microns (1/1000 mm) thick. When polishing we aim to remove between 5 and 10um to "cut" to the base level of the inflicted scratches.

If a scratch is deep there are a few tests i do to check what level to go to. Firstly measure the paint depth around the affected area to gauge how much paint i can safely remove. Secondly, can i catch my fingernail on the scratch. Thirdly, is the base of the scratch white or off colour.
If the answer is Yes to the latter two questions then it is likely the scratch has gone through the laquer and down to the colour pigment or even primer.

Now i have a few options...if the scratch is in the colour pigment and the laquer in the surrounding area healthy then i can polish down to a safe level and "soften" the edges of the scratch. This reduces the impact of the scratch to the naked eye. The edges of the scratch would be rounded meaning the light reflected would be of a lesser angle when entering the eye.

My second option would be wetsanding and applying paint. The scratch would be cleaned using IPA (pure alcohol) and a thin line of paint applied. The paint would be built up so that the final few applications be above the surface of the surrounding areas. This is left to dry for as long as possible and flatted back using a fine grade of wet/dry paper. The marks left from the wet and dry paper are then removed by polishing and the scratch totally removed.


would using something like t-cut just on these bits be too harsh and a cardinal no no or ok??

T-Cut is a big No No in terms of repair!!!

All polishes use abrasive particles Meguiars, Menzerna, 3M etc use deminishing abrasives (good) T-Cut uses non deminishing abrasives (bad)

Think of it like this with deminishing abrasives:

0
00
000
00000

The smaller the particle the better the finish.

Now the lubrication in the product allows the abrasives to be broken down to tiny particles which are removed when buff off. Heat is a catalyst in this process but its all about balancing lubrication with heat to allow the product to work properly.

And non deminishing abrasives:

000
000
000
000

No matter how hard, long and lubricated the product is the abrasives remain the same size. This results in a scouring of the laquer! Infact its quite simalar to wet sanding!!!!


It is very important when polishing to end up using as finer abrasive as you can. The fine abrasives work to remove any defects inflicted by the bigger abrasives and burnish the finish.


Other T-Cut products contain colour dyes and fillers which simply mask the problem until the protection wears off.


So in answer to your question:

No i wouldn't use T-Cut. I would look to use a good hand polish like Poorboys SSR1. Probably followed by a filler product (Autoglym Super Resin Polish or Clearkote Red Moose Machine Glaze) then topped with a wax of choice :)

[mark84]

thanx andy! i thought i was a car cleaning/detailing nut but you are a totally different level! did think the t-cut was a big no no as when i have used it on old bangers when i was younger it felt soo abrasive! i'll give the AG Super resin a good pounding on the scratches a few times over and then a couple of coats of the meg DC as i liek the finish i get followed by the megs wax as metionned above! any tips on the touch up paint?? or was the poorboys stuff for that! thanx again andy!

[Emily]

Hi Andy! I let BMW loose on my MINI when I first got it, I had a couple of scratches which they sorted out. They thought they were being kind and machine polished just one side of the car (!) I have to say I has hopping as what this has appeared to have done is cause wax/polish holograms. I looks completly toilet now when the sun is bouncing off of it.

I have been reluctant to get BMW to right these wrongs as I am concerned what further damage they could do.

Is there a way of treating this myself?

[Gavin1980]

Andy

Whats the best way of getting some scratches off of a metal polished badge?

[Keano]

Hi Andy

Whats the best follow up for the waxes you used on my car the other week? After you have done a detail what is the best way to maintain the look? Perhaps another thread needed (unless Ive missed it) describing methods/products needed to maintain the look after a detail and before the next one...